Do You Know How Much Your 4WD Wheels (Rims & Tyres) Weigh?
Do you know how much your 4WD wheels (rims and tyres) weigh? This is an interesting question and is something that is not always considered when going down the endless money pit of a 4WD build especially when it involves a 76 (70) Series Toyota Land Cruiser.
You Will Be Surprised
The big dilemma with any 4WD build is weight and GVM and if it is not then it should be. Weight should be one of the most important considerations in any 4WD build as 4WD payloads are not endless (even with a GVM increase) and every little modification will influence this. You are constantly weighing up (no pun intended) the pros and cons of certain modifications and what effects these will have on your payload. On this subject of weight have you ever actually asked yourself how much your 4WD wheels (rims and tyres) weigh?
Call us naïve but this is something that really surprised us when we went down this rabbit hole trying to work out what our 33-inch tyre and rim setup weighs compared to the stock 31-inch Toyota rim and tyre setup. When we got a bit of a shock at a weighbridge weigh in, we tried to determine how our calculations could have been so far off, so we tried to investigate it further. We knew how much most of our modifications weighed but one of the modifications we made assumptions on was our rims and tyres. So, what was the weight difference between stock and our upgraded 33-inch rim and tyre setup?
The problem we faced in trying to get to the bottom of this question was getting accurate weight figures from Australian companies. The amount of misinformation out there is astounding if we are going to be perfectly honest. Firstly, no Australian company (that we could find at the time of writing this post) lists the weights of their tyres or rims on any of their websites. Secondly, when you ask this question, you then find out how difficult it is to get a straight and accurate answer. We have messaged and spoken to several different suppliers and businesses and after much persistence we thought we would share our findings with you as you might be quite surprised on what we have been able to determine. This is one part of our 4WD build where our assumptions were completely wrong (you know what they say about assumptions) and this had a real big impact on our payload calculations. Hopefully, this post will shed more light on this area so that when you start to plan your own 4WD build you do not make the same miscalculations we did.
Tyres the Most Important Part of a 4WD
Tyres must be one of the most important part of any 4WD build if you plan on doing any sort of remote travelling. Tyres take an absolute hammering and can derail any well-planned adventure when something goes wrong. Fitting inferior and cheap tyres will lead to failures when driving across some of the harsh rocky and corrugated roads in remote Australia. As a result, if you plan on exploring remote parts of this wonderful Country then you will want to change the stock tyres that come with your 4WD. Making the decision to change your tyres is easy, then you need to try and determine which brand and style to go with. When it comes to brand, we are extremely lucky to have a huge range of amazing brands that have been tried and tested in Australian conditions. Brand will be a personal choice as everyone has a different opinion on what is the best. We have had really good results with BF Goodrich on our 76 (70) Series Toyota Land Cruiser as well as Good Year on our two previous 4WDs. But there are a range of other good options out there so do your research.
Mud or All-Terrain Tyres
Brand is important but then so is the type of tyre. Do you choose an all-terrain or a mud tyre? We have had great success with both all-terrain and mud tyres, so this again is going to come down to the pros and cons of both types. All-terrain tyres are going to be far more comfortable from a road noise perspective, but some mud tyres have improved dramatically in this area. All-terrains are also going to be far easier to have balanced correctly so will provide a more comfortable ride with far less vibrations. Mud tyres are a nightmare to balance, and you will more than likely have issues with vibrations at certain speeds. All-terrain tyres are far less chunky, and this is what leads them to being quieter on the road. Mud tyres are chunky as they need to be to be able to displace mud assisting you through such obstacles. As we have tried both all-terrain and mud tyres, we can see the benefits of both, but we would only ever go with a mud tyre while running one spare as we have had far less issues off-road. This is our opinion as there will be others that think very differently. We have never had a puncture or blow out off-road with our BF Goodrich KM3s, where we have with Good Year Wrangler all-terrains. The only flat we have had with our KM3s was driving around an industrial area where we picked up a loose screw. This was easily repaired with our tyre repair kit over 20,000kms ago and we are still running with that same tyre. But we will not go into too much more detail here about our BFG KM3s as we have written another post on them here.
This choice between all-terrain and mud tyre will influence the weight of the tyre as mud tyres in general are slightly heavier. For example, the BF Goodrich all-terrain KO2 tyres are approximately 3kgs lighter than the BF Goodrich KM3s in both 31-inch and 33-inch tyre sizes. Comparing the BFG all-terrain KO2 and KM3 31-inch tyres to the stock Toyota 31-inch tyres there is a weight difference of 2kgs and 4.5kgs respectively. The BFG all-terrain KO2 tyre is a far more aggressive all-terrain than the stock Toyota tyre with the KM3 mud tyre on another planet. Based on these weight differences you can see what a chunkier and more aggressive tyre does to additional weight just in the same size tyre. So, what happens when you go bigger?
The Bigger Tyre Dilemma
We upgraded from the stock Toyota tyre size of 31-inches to the maximum legal tyre size of 33-inches. There are some big benefits of running a bigger tyre, but they do come at the cost of more weight. A two-inch increase in tyre size provides your 4WD with an additional 1-inch lift. The big benefit of getting a lift with bigger tyres is this increase in lift is across the whole vehicle meaning you not only increase the clearance of the body of your 4WD, as you do with suspension, but also your diff. Being that your diff is usually the lowest point of your 4WD, running a bigger tyres gives you that little more clearance that can be the difference between smashing it on a rock or just missing it. Therefore, so many people run even bigger 35-inch tyres, but in most cases, this is illegal in Queensland (without engineering) as you can legally only increase your wheel size by 2-inches from stock.
The bigger the tyre the heavier they are going to be which is a negative impact on 4WD payload and GVM. For example, if you changed from the 31-inch stock Toyota all-terrain tyre to a 33-inch BGF KM3 mud tyre, the weight increase is 7.8kgs per tyre. That is almost 40kgs for 5 tyres. This is a big increase and is sometimes not considered when upgrading to a bigger tyre size. If you went from 31-inch to 35-inch tyres this increase would be closer to 11kgs per tyre and almost 55kgs total. But even with this increase in weight going from 31-inch to 33-inch tyres we would still make this upgrade every single time. It is just good to know what the weight differences are so that you can work within your GVM.
Tyre Weights
To provide you with some weight examples of different tyre sizes and types we have collated the below data. The weight data on the BF Goodrich tyres was provided to us directly from BF Goodrich Australia in Melbourne. As we briefly mentioned above you can see the weight differences of going from a non-aggressive all-terrain tyre to an aggressive BFG KO2 all-terrain of almost 2kgs when not increasing tyre size. The BFG KM3 mud tyre will add another 4.5kgs per tyre. Increasing to a 33-inch tyre will add another 4.8kgs and 7.8kgs for the BFG KO2 and KM3 tyres, respectively. If only carrying one spare so a total of 5 tyres this weight increase from stock 31-inch to 33-inch tyres is a total of 24kgs and 39kgs for the BFG KO2 and KM3 tyres, respectively.
Steel vs Alloy Rims
When changing your tyre setup in a lot of instances you will need or consider changing your rims. If you choose to go to a wider and bigger tyre you will find that most stock alloy or steel rims are only 7-inches wide, and you will more than likely need a wider rim of at least 8-inches to safely run a wider tyre setup. We know people that have thrown a 33-inch 285x75R16 tyre on the stock Toyota Land Cruiser GXL rim, but it does become risky when you need to air down considerably. If you drop your tyre pressures down to say 15PSI you would run the risk of breaking a bead which would be a real hassle when off-road. So, you have decided to go a bigger tyre and you need to upgrade your rims, you then need to decide if you will go steel or alloy.
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- And 15PSI
There are benefits to both types of rims and the end choice will depend on the individual. There is the common misconception that steel rims are stronger than alloy rims. This can be true for low quality alloy rims but in most instances a good quality alloy rim is as strong as a steel one. So, strength between the two in our opinion is not a big factor. The big difference between steel and alloy rims is that alloy rims can crack in the event of running lower pressures and you have a massive impact with some obstacle. If an alloy rim cracks, they are usually thrown away as repairing them is not usually worth the cost. Steel rims can get damaged but are usually able to be beaten back into place however it is not that easy to do out on the track so will usually be repaired when you get back to civilisation. There is also another common misconception that alloy rims are much lighter than steel rims. This again is not always the case. If you can find a fully forged alloy rim, then they will more than likely be a lot lighter but most alloys in the marketplace are not fully forged. An upgraded 8-inch-wide alloy rim in most cases is only 1.5 to 2.5kgs lighter than the same size steel option. There is a noticeable weight difference when upgrading from a 7-inch-wide alloy stock rim to both an 8-inch-wide alloy or steel rim so these weight changes should also be considered. There are also far more offset options with steel rims compared to alloy rims however there are a lot more offset options these days in the alloy rim range. The final difference between alloy and steel rims is of course the price. You can pick up a new 16-inch steel rim for $110 where a decent alloy rim of the same size will cost $300 plus a whole lot more.
We chose to run with 16-inch Dynamic Steel Co steel rims as they were a cheap upgrade (especially once we sold our stock Toyota Land Cruiser alloy rims) and the added comfort that there is less chance of something going wrong when we are on our own in the middle of nowhere. We have considered changing to alloy rims for the small weight saving but we would only go down this route if we carried a second spare for some added comfort. At this point in time, we are happy with the Dynamic Steel Co steel rims we are running with, but we will see what happens in the future.
Rim Weights
After speaking with a few different suppliers, we have been able to list a few examples of different steel and alloy rim weights. The below table provides you with an example of the weight differences between the stock Toyota Land Cruiser alloy and steel rims on the GXL and Work Mate. If you own a Work Mate, there is not a big difference in changing these rims. However, there is a pretty big difference when changing the Land Cruiser GXL alloy rims as they are light in comparison. The biggest issue with the GXL alloy rims is they are only 7-inches wide, which is a little annoying as they are a nice alloy rim in our opinion.
You can see that we have added another 4.2kgs per rim by changing from the stock Toyota GXL alloy to the Dynamic Steel Co steel rim. That is a total weight increase including the spare of 21kgs. If we chose to go with say the Dynamic Wheel Co Pro Comp alloy rim this increase would have only been 2.2kgs per rim and a total of 11kgs. It might not seem like much but when you include the additional weight of the bigger tyres it does start to add up and is something you should consider when building your 4WD.
Total Wheel Weights
In the above we have shown you examples of tyre and rim weights so let us look at these combined in different wheel setups. The below table summarises the approximate weight per tyre and total weight with one spare of the stock Toyota Land Cruiser wheel setups as well as a few other combinations to provide you with a good comparison.
The below table shows you the total weight increases with the 76 (70) Series Toyota Land Cruiser going from the stock wheel setup to a larger 33-inch wheel setup in a few different combinations. The first few columns compare the GXL and the last few compare the Work Mate. From this table you can see that we added an additional 60kgs to our 76 (70) Series Toyota Land Cruiser by changing to 33-inch wheel setup running BFG KM3 mud tyres and Dynamic Steel Co steel rims.
Hopefully, the above tables provide you with some useful information on tyre, rim, and wheel setup weights to assist you in making the right decisions in your 4WD build. All the weights listed above have been provided to us by the respective brands, if there are any errors then we apologise as we can only rely on the information provided to us by the manufacturers and suppliers.
Unsprung Weight
Our final comment on 4WD wheel (tyre and rim) weights is to consider unsprung weight in your 4WD. Unsprung weight is the total weight of all the components including, tyres, rims, suspension, diffs and so on that are not supported by your 4WDs suspension. When your 4WD is engineered by the manufacturer they invest a significant amount of time and money ensuring that the unsprung weight is optimal for vehicle performance. As soon as the unsprung weight is increased there is going to be a negative effect on vehicle performance. This is caused through increased vibrations and a more uncomfortable ride as the increased unsprung weight will cause the wheels to absorb more energy affecting the overall ride and handling of your 4WD. The greater the unsprung weight in any vehicle will lead to far worse handling conditions off-road as it can become more difficult to control your 4WD as tyre contact is reduced with the road surface. With heavier wheels your 4WDs suspension will find it harder when driving on bumpy roads to push your tyres back down to make contact with the road surface. Less tyre contact with the road leads to poor vehicle handling it is as simple as that.
Running a heavier wheel setup is also going to affect vehicle performance regarding fuel economy and engine performance. Increasing your wheel weights requires the engine to work even harder to turn your wheels so this will obviously affect the amount of fuel you use and how well the engine performs. These are all trade-offs that need to be considered with the overall benefits of running bigger and better tyres while off-road.
We Will Still Run Bigger Tyres
We have shown you that upgrading to bigger and better tyres has some disadvantages. These include the additional weight, ride comfort, vehicle performance, fuel economy and the effect on 4WD GVM. With all these downsides to running bigger tyres we still believe the benefits more than outweigh them. As we said when we started this post, we believe rims and tyres are one of the most important part of any 4WD. Running with extremely good tyres ensures you are less likely to suffer from tyre failure and a ruined adventure. Having bigger tyres provides you that additional diff clearance which makes a huge difference when driving off-road. At the end of the day, it will come down to the type of tyre, all-terrain verse mud, and the type of rim, steel vs alloy. Each setup is going to be slightly different when it comes to weight. So hopefully the above information on what 4WD tyres actually weigh, provide you with some good insights when choosing which wheel setup to go with and ensuring you do your GVM calculations more accurately than we did.
If you have any questions or comments about this post, please comment below. To keep up to date on future posts join the 4WD Adventurer community here. For more posts on our 4WD build you can read them here. For more regular updates please follow us on Instagram. Thanks for reading legends.
The thoughts of Peter.
11/12/2023 @ 10:31 AM
Hi Peter,
I’m just revisiting your post since I’m thinking of new tyres for my Prado 120. Whilst not as bush capable out of the box as the 76 series, it is a very comfortable tourer, so my mods are mostly about making it more capable off road. I have gone 50mm lift, rear locker and larger tyres (+38mm), but I would like to go closer to 50mm on the tyres. 50mm is trickier than its sounds since most tyre sizes as are just greater than 50mm.
I notice you have gone a full 2″ larger than stock (and then some) I think in all states (but definitely in QLD) the max legal tyre size increase is 50mm over largest tyre on the placard.
How have you gotten around this? It is probably low risk to go, say, up to 55mm and rely on the good graces of the police and/or insurers, but I was wondering if you had the vehicle signed off or perhaps in your state there are are ways around this?
11/12/2023 @ 2:27 PM
G’day Brad,
Thanks for reading mate, appreciate the support and message.
Nothing wrong with a Prado, they are great vehicles and comfort wise, you will be far better off than we are.
So we went to 33″ tyres, so it is only a 2″ increase on the stock 70 Series tyre at 31″. This is within the maximum allowable increase of 50mm (2-inches) in Queensland; 2″ biggerin diameter, but only 1″ increase in ride height. So we have not had to do anything around certification / engineering as we are within the max limit. If we went to say 35″ tyres (4″ increase in diameter and 2″ increase in ride height), then we would have a problem if someone looked at this closely, plus the insurance risks. To be perfectly honest, 33″ tyres for touring are perfect for me (fuel consumption and unsprung weight), I don’t see the benefit of 35″ tyres unless you are doing lots of rock crawling and need that additional diff lift. I also think the 285 75 16s are just under 33″.
What is the stock Prado tyre size?
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Peter
09/02/2023 @ 5:07 PM
I’m trying to clear a offset issue in my head.
I have 2022 LC76 – UAE version with 4 l V6 petrol (for info). I assume suspension is same and I have it in stock.
Planning to go 235/85R16 (also 33 inc) (instead of 285/75R16).
With 0 offset I should have 0 rubbing in front? Skinnies benefit…
So I should go:
Front 0 offset.
Back -50 or -55 offset
and spear 0 offset with a 50mm spacer in storage.
Should this work?
Does this skinnie tyre alos fit under stock?
10/02/2023 @ 12:18 PM
Hi Aadu,
Thanks for reading and the message.
I am pretty sure the V6 petrols are similar but, I cannot be 100% certain on that. With the petrol version do you still have the wheel track issue in the rear? I thought this was only an issue with the V8 diesels.
So, when we ran 285/75R16s on stock suspension with negative 25 offset rims all around, we only had issue with rubbing on full steering lock. That being said, we only ran with stock suspension for a few months. So did not have extenstive time testing on stock suspension. We did not have any issues with rubbing anywhere else. With 235s being these are 50mm narrower, they would probably sit about the same from the inside with 0 offset rims to our negative 25 rims. I cannot be certain what rubbing you might experience on stock suspension, we only had this on full steering lock.
With your rear offset question. I suppose it comes back to my first comment, does the V6 have a rear track issue like the V8. If it does, then running a negative offset to negate this track issue is really going to come down to preference. I personally have not run 0 up front and negative 50 or 55 in the rear, as I will then have issues with the rear arches not being wide enough. I do not like the look of the rubber extensions, and the fiberglass replacements are far too expensive and do not look good in my opinion. Also, in Australia, it is illegal to run greater than 25mm offset, although many do. I would never use spacers as for me these open up risks that I would prefer not to take. These are also illegal in Australia. If you do have the track issue and want to remove this, then your best bet will be the larger offset in the rear. Just remember this will place more pressure on your rear bearings, so you will need to make sure these are serviced regularly.
If you do go the larger rear offset, then definitely have a 0 offset spare and do not worry about a spacer. You can use the 0 offset spare on the rear for short periods of time, it won’t be a massive issue.
Finally, it is hard for me to comment on the tyre size you are wanting to run, as I have never used these. I can only give you my feedback from when we ran the 285/75R16s on stock suspension for a few months.
Hope that has helped, let me know if you have any other questions.
Cheers,
Peter
19/10/2022 @ 9:16 AM
Thx Peter, super handy and a lot of work put into it.
We’ve got a 78’GXL with the stock steel rims which I think are only 6” wide not even the 7” of the factory alloys.
What about rear barn door mounting? Do you know at what rim width/tyre size the factory mount becomes unworkable and you need a seperate rear carrier? Again it’s all more weight and with the factory fitted twin fuel tanks on the troopy we don’t need to carry spare jerry cans on the back. I’d like to stay with the factory barn door tyre mount to save weight if possible.
20/10/2022 @ 10:10 AM
G’day Andrew,
Thanks for the feedback mate, much appreciated.
With the rear barn door, you can get away with much wider rims and bigger tyres from a mounting point of view, but there is then the issue with the additional load on the rear door. So bigger tyres are possible to mount, I would just be careful with the extra weight. Any prolonged driving on corrugated and bumpy roads is only going to put more pressure on the rear door hinges and there is the risk of failure. We mounted 33 inch tyres (285 75 16s) on 8 inch rims with a negative 25 offset temporarily until we fitted a rear bar with tyre carrier. So it really depends on what size tyres and rims you are looking at upgrading to, and their additional weight to factory.
Do you know what tyre and rim setup you are looking at going to? All-terrains vs muddies, steel vs alloy, etc and the additional weight?
Cheers,
Peter
01/11/2022 @ 5:54 AM
Thx Peter, I’ve just upgraded to four new Falken wildpeak AT3W 285/75R16 on Dynamic steel rims (factory offset – 0 I think) but have left the factory spare on the barn door. They both have 834mm diam. so its like a running spare for the moment while I work out the options. Great know the 285/75R16 will fit although see you’ve gone for a 35mm offset which would help mounting. I’ve also taken the four maxtrax off the rear spare wheel and moved to the roof but have then put a solid Patrol Australia drop down table with a swing out extension on the inside – plus we have a rubbish bag on the spare. It all adds up! That’ll get us up to north Qld this month then reassess when we need to go further
03/11/2022 @ 2:00 PM
G’day Andrew,
Thanks for reading and the message, much appreciated.
So we run neg 25 offset rims all around which does help with fitting, especially with stock suspension. Before we went up 50mm, the bigger tyres fitted fine, just minor rubbing on full steering lock.
It is so hard keeping the weight out of the rear in the wagons. We have had some success moving some heavier items into the middle but this did require the rear seat to be removed. By also adding the auxiliary fuel tank in the middle this has helped with weight distribution. Before my most recent outback trip, I did weigh the 76 once fully loaded with 215 litres of fuel, 60 litres of water, and two spares, total weight of 3.45T (that’s with GVM upgrade to 3.66T). Weight distribution was approximately 37% front axles and 63% rear.
Cheers,
Peter
08/07/2022 @ 8:01 AM
Hi mate like your post on the tyre weights.
Just wondering if you could help me out I have a 2021 76 series landcruiser and was wondering if going from the stock 31 inch tyre’s to 33 inch would fit without scrubbing on the stock suspension.
Cheers
08/07/2022 @ 9:37 AM
G’day Luke,
Thanks for the feedback mate, much appreciated.
If you take a look at this post on our KM3s you will see in the Tyre Size section a few photos from when we had these 33’s fitted before we had our suspension done. We got minor scrubbing on the inside when wheels were at full lock.
https://4wdadventurer.com/4wds/bfg-bf-goodrich-km3-mud-terrain-tyres-on-our-76-series-land-cruiser/
Hope that helps you out. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Cheers,
Peter
21/04/2022 @ 8:25 AM
Hey Peter, i’ve just stumbled across your website looking for replacement tyres for our 76.
We purchased our’s late 2019 and the stock tyres are almost done.
We’re looking at the BFG K02’s in a 33” on the stock alloy rims. We’re in the South Island of NZ and the truck is used as the every day run around. With the occasional off-roading we don’t need to go full fat muds.
Great website with a lot of info for me to get through.
Cheers Rob
21/04/2022 @ 4:40 PM
G’day Rob,
Thanks for reading mate, and appreciate the message.
You have done well out of the stock tyres! We got ours 2019 as well. If I didn’t go with muddies I would have likely gone with the BFG KO2’s as they look to be a good all-terrain and are still fairly aggressive. I would not recommend the KM3s if you are only off-road occasionally. Plenty of downsides with the muddies when it comes to weight, noise, vibrations, and fuel economy. The one reason we like the KM3s has been no punctures or blow outs during some fairly long drives on rough and corrugated roads. We are due for a change soon, so weighing up if we go all-terrains this time, but I think we will stay with the KM3s as we have not had any major issues. We also have a few big trips planned later this year that will have some extremely rough and rocky drives for long periods and I will feel more comfortable with the KM3s.
But for mostly normal driving the KO2 will be a good option. We ran the Good Year Wrangler all-terrains for years and went through a few sets. They were a fantastic tyre and never had any issues. Got a good 80,000-90,000 kms out of them as well. Could be another one to look at. Biggest issue at the moment is stock. So hopefully you can find some in the beautiful part of NZ where you are. Absolutely love the South Island.
Thanks for reading mate. You should find lots of posts on our 76 build that could be helpful. Always happy to answer any questions if you ever have any.
Cheers,
Peter
18/04/2022 @ 7:25 PM
Fantastic read! Thanks for all the work putting the article together!
19/04/2022 @ 9:05 AM
G’day Jason,
No worries mate, thanks for reading and your feedback, much appreciated.
Our mate recently purchased a brand new 79 Series and is changing his wheels. So we used his industrial scale the other day to re-weigh the stock 79 Series GXL alloy rims and 31-inch tyres and they came in at just over 30kgs each. He has purchased PCOR 17-inch alloy rims (9-inches wide) and these weighed 14.3kgs each. Only slightly lighter than a steel rim. It does highlight that there is not a big difference in weights between steel and alloy rims. Bigger tyres are the weight killer, especially when going to mud tyres and anything bigger than 31-inches. I really need to find out the weights of 35-inch tyres, but I did not do any research into these as I will never run such a big tyre being they are illegal and do not see the benefit in them for what we do.
Cheers,
Peter
10/10/2021 @ 7:25 PM
Thanks! Finally someone said it.
11/10/2021 @ 9:27 AM
G’day Wade
No worries mate. We were surprised with the lack of info on tyre and rim weights. It’s something that a lot of people don’t think about when upgrading.
Thanks for reading and your feedback mate, much appreciated.
Cheers
Peter